tezos协议和过度授权问题

Question

tezos协议和过度授权问题

- 3
- 234 2019-04-10
为什么Tezos协议允许面包师过度授权?

Tezos协议本身已编码需要烘烤和背书的XTZ数量,该协议还定义了此类资金需要保留多长时间.为什么协议本身没有提供防止过度授权的机制?

似乎不幸的是,即使我是一个过度委派的面包师,我也可以在我的网站上以100px字体写这个事实,但是其他人仍然可以错误地委托我.

不能像在tezos-client no longer accepting delegations for my_baker这样的协议中将操作简单地内置到协议中吗?

这将在贝克帐户上设置一个标志,从此以后,对该贝克的委派操作将失败.这显然比没有要好,但是确实需要面包师方面的手动干预.

该协议通过使用已经为执行存款要求而构建的自己的算法来检测过度授权,从而能够自动防止此问题,这将是棘手的甚至是不可能的.但是,这很棘手,因为这意味着面包师需要过早地用越来越多的XTZ来填充其帐户,以防止过度授权,而不仅仅是等待代表团的出现然后相应地充值.

想知道是否有人在考虑或致力于此工作吗?这似乎是一个重大问题.

(我意识到这个问题开始有点进入主观领域,但是我仍然觉得它是一个非常重要的问题,而且我在任何地方都没有看到它问过或回答过.我觉得这个问题应该存在于一个非常公开和可见的论坛,所以我在这里问.)

Why does the Tezos protocol allow for baker over-delegation?

It is the Tezos protocol itself that has encoded the amount of XTZ that needs to be put up for baking and endorsements and the protocol also defines how long such funds need to be held for. Why does the protocol itself not provide a mechanism to prevent over-delegation?

It seems unfortunate that, even if I'm an over-delegated baker, and I can write that fact in size 100px font on my website, yet others can still mistakenly delegate to me.

Couldn't an operation very simply be built into the protocol like: tezos-client no longer accepting delegations for my_baker?

This would set a flag on the baker account and from then on out delegation operations to this baker would fail. This definitely seems better than nothing, but it does require manual intervention on the baker's part.

Trickier and possibly impossible would be for the protocol to automatically prevent this by detecting over-delegation using its own algorithms that are already built for enforcing deposit requirements. It gets tricky though, because this means a baker would need to fill their account with more and more XTZ prematurely to prevent from becoming over-delegated, instead of just waiting for the delegations to occur and then topping up their accounts accordingly.

Wondering if anyone is thinking about or working on this? It seems to be a significant problem.

(I realize this question starts to veer a bit into the subjective realm, but I still feel its a very important question and I haven't seen it asked or answered anywhere. I feel this question should exist somewhere in a very public and visible forum, so I'm asking it here.)

baking protocol delegating

- 真的对这里的投票感到好奇,并希望提供他们的理由.这个问题确实有效和有用.答案本身可能是有用的."回答问题"的具体实施是主观的,并且会受到批评.我明白.
  
  Really curious about the downvotes here and wish the reasons for them were supplied. The question is really valid and useful. The answer itself could be useful. The specific implementation to 'answer the problem' is subjective and subject to criticism. I understand.
  - 0
  - 2019-04-10
  - lostdorje
- 具体问题是什么?当我阅读这篇文章时,我感到很受邀参加讨论,但是我不确定答案是什么.答案是引用协议的主要来源还是解释协议设计者的想法?独立设想的动机来保持事物的原状或改变它们?溶液还是溶解?有任何模糊的想法吗?
  
  What is the specific question? When I read this, I feel invited to join a discussion, but I am not sure what the answer should be. Is an answer a citation or primary source explaining what the designers of the protocol were thinking? Independently conceived motivations for keeping things the way they are ...or for changing them? Solutions or dissolutions? Any vaguely related thoughts?
  - 0
  - 2019-04-10
  - Tom
- 很公平.我承认这个问题有点冗长,第一句话,第一个问题是主要问题:为什么Tezos协议允许贝克过度授权?@Ezy的答案是一个很好的答案.我想知道是否还有更多原因.如果您知道过度引用是设计选择的原因的引用或链接,那将是超级好的.
  
  Fair enough. The question is a bit wordy and long, I admit.The first sentence, the first question is the main question: Why does the Tezos protocol allow for baker over-delegation? @Ezy's answer is a good answer. I'm wondering if there are more reasons. Citations or links to why over-delegation is a design choice would be super if you know of them.
  - 0
  - 2019-04-11
  - lostdorje

2 个回答

投票数

- 1
- 2019-04-10
过度授权的原因是为了改善权力下放并鼓励自我约束；在系统中拥有"个人"股份.

许多不同的团队正在考虑这一问题并致力于解决方案.查看Cryptium Labs的 Burebrot 建议.

但是它并没有前进；

作为一个无权限的系统,我们应该防止A委派给B吗?

由于我们不知道他们是谁,所以无法联系他们

面包师可能会删除其全部或部分债券-不应该这样做吗?

面包师可能会关闭-不允许这样做吗?

自我结合是避免规模经济和集权化的重要机制

过度授权对于面包师来说可能是一个烦人的事情,但这是确保权力下放和系统利益的重要机制.解决此问题的更好方法也许是制作更好的工具并鼓励积极的代表和面包师.

您可以阅读有关过度授权的更多信息此处.
The reason for over-delegation is to improve decentralization and encourage self-bonding; having a "personal" stake in the system.

Many different teams are thinking about this and working on solutions. Check out the Burebrot proposal by Cryptium Labs.

However it's not straigtforward;

Being a permissionsless system, should we prevent A from delegating to B?

There is no way to contact ones delegators since we do not know who they are

A baker might remove all or part of it's bond - should this not be allowed?

A baker might shut down - should this not be allowed?

Self bonding is an important mechanism to avoid economies of scale and centralization

Over-delegation can be an annoyance for bakers, but it is an important mechanism to ensure decentralization and stake in the system. Perhaps a better way to "work around" this issue is to make better tools and encourage active delegators and bakers.

You can read more about overdelegation here.
- 感谢您的想法和链接.代表团可以帮助那些没有足够的XTZ或没有足够的技术知识的人士获得所持股份的"权益",并保护他们免受通胀和间接参与投票的伤害.我不认为允许过度授权不仅对授权有任何帮助.Burebrot非常有趣,我想看看结果如何,但是从我读到的内容来看,我在提案中没有看到任何防止过度授权的内容.
  
  Thanks for your thoughts and the link. Delegation can help those without enough XTZ or without enough tech know-how to earn 'interest' on their holdings and be protected against inflation and indirectly participate in voting. I don't see how allowing over-delegation helps any of this any more than just allowing delegation. Burebrot is very interesting and I would like to see what comes out of it, but from what I've read I did not see anything in the proposal that would prevent over-delegation.
  - 2
  - 2019-04-11
  - lostdorje

Ezy · Accepted Answer · 2019-04-11

3

2019-04-11

如果协议不允许过度授权,则意味着如果面包师处于最大容量,则将不允许她从其隐式地址中删除任何xtz.这是不可接受的,因为唯一需要粘合的时间是面包师拥有烘焙权时,因此只有在那时,她才必须必须有xtz才能将其作为后期抵押物发布.

防止面包师在不需要时转移其资本,这可能被视为对面包师资本的滥用约束,甚至可能导致攻击者通过将面包师的tz1地址委托给她来"锁定"她的tz1地址.足够的xtz.总而言之,这有可能使个人无法开始面包店经营.

原文
Ezy

啊,谢谢你！很好的答案,很有意义.关于这一点,您对文学有什么指示吗?我想更好地理解这一点.

Ah, thank you! Excellent answer and make a lot of sense. Do you have any pointers to literature regarding this? I'd like to understand this better.
- 0
- 2019-04-11
- lostdorje
@lostdorje对不起,我在阅读您的问题时才想到它:))

@lostdorje no sorry i just thought abt it when reading your question :))
- 0
- 2019-04-11
- Ezy